Forum dedicated to increasing awareness of green living through beneficial dialogue.

Both systems are very efficient and great to use wholewheat but if you are looking at cost to benefit comparisons the HOD is far better. First of all the Fed is giving rebates of up to 70% for the purchase and installation of these systems. Second as you previously stated they heat up only when needed providing hot water on demand instead of maintaining a temperature 24/7/365...

Research the various heaters though as they are not all equal in construction or durability. I personaly recomend the Bosch.

And as far as Going total PV... Ramp your system up slowly... no one says you have to put it all together at one time.
Buy one panel at a cost of 6000 dollars and an inverter then connect them to the energy slug of your house... the Refrigerater. that alone will make a huge difference in your energy bill. And will reduce the Carbon FP of your house hold by a great amount.

Have you looked into geo thermal heating and cooling. As far as the ouch factor you expressed about the 80,000 dollars for one of the systms you looked at. I remember saying ouch to flat panel t.v's,cell phones,and alot of other new technology when it came out, as I have expressed to others on this board,thank God for rich people who can afford this technology,they can purchase these products and will drive the cost down for us all. I'm pretty sure that when a/c first came out you had people grumbling about the cost then,now just about everyone has it. Microwaves,camcorders, I remember the cost of those a few years back,and it was the folks that had the money,and competition that drives the price down,you gotta love capitialism! Even though it's not perfect.it's the best.

Thanks to Urban Forager and Shortfuses for the feedback. As much as we would like to be 100% free from the utility grid and it's coresponding utility bills, we do not have the financial means to do so now. I do like the idea of hot water on demand since it is a very logical alternative to perpetually using up energy heating water when we only will need hot water on a very limited basis. We will take Urban Forager's advise and see if we can get some quotes on that project. I also like the idea of fazing in solar PV, and perhaps we can have a site analysis done to determine if we can afford it. Until we can sell up here in Pennsylvania, we have to shepard our limited funds carefully so as not to bankrupt ourselves. Once the home is sold, then perhaps we can start building up gradually towards the goal of energy independence. Nothing appeals to me more than knowing we are not using up finite resources and at the same time not having to pay somebody else every month for the rest of our lives while we could be tapping all the power we would need from the good old sun!

As for geothermal power, that would be prohibitive financially and may be difficult given the location of the cottage on a steep mountain lot. I do agree with shortfuses that prices tend to drop over time with new technology. Sadly though, it seems to me that solar technology does not seem to have come down in cost as fast as the prices for other techno gadgets. It makes me wonder why and perhaps the fact that the federal government offers so many subsidies to the energy industry and the construction industry responsible for building yet more roads. Surely if the government threw its official blessing behind alternative energy and stopped propping up the huge profits the energy companies have recorded recently the costs of alternative energy would drop a lot faster. That's why i believe we still need more than just "time and patience" to get us there. The government needs to make a REAL effort to back off the tax breaks and subsidies to big oil and throw some of that cash toward the R & D effort of those that focus soley on solar technology.

I've always wanted to go solar. Decades back we had a family a few blocks away go solar. They were one of the first to do it. I just can't afford to make the transition.

Barrack Hussein Obama has his hands in the pockets of big oil that's why other technology hasn't moved. I do remember him saying something about putting all those coal miners out of a job though by shutting down the coal mines. That will be a great move,longer soup lines.

Howdy,

Shortfuses...why do you always have to be sure to use Obama's middle name in your replies. Do you introduce yourself to those you meet using yours. I doubt it, and worry that by doing so you are trying to imply that he is a Moslem terrorist or something! Anyway... I voted for Obama since there was NO DOUBT that he was FAR BETTER in many ways the George WALKER Bush was. If ever there was a president that shorted the American people to the betterment of the very small elistist wealthy populace and BIG BUSINESS it was he! Having said that, I agree that Obama has yet to fulfill his mandate to push for solar, wind and other alternative sources of energy. Like all before him, he may be, sadly, sucking up more to the powered campaign contribtors ( the wealthy and big business) ratherthan being a man and doing the right thing. Hopefully he will see the light and actually do something real rather than promise to care and then not follow up with direct and bold actions.

Even simple things can be mandated that would improve the way we live, including modest changes to the building code. You had replied to me on the introduction forum here and mentioned running air conditioning and the need for the power to do so. Well, that day up here was very sunny, hot, and muggy and yet I realized that i did not use the airconditioner and didn't need to. The reason was simple...thermal mass. We live in an eighty year old english tudor style home. The outside is a whitewash covered stucco, and the walls are about a foot thick. Simply put, these thick walls, along with appropriate plantings around the house meant that the inside stayed cool almost all day long. The walls had cooled over night, and then their mass kept things fine all day. So, requiring better building codes that address thermal mass, insulation, insulated windows, and things like hot water on demand or solar heated water would save the country a whole crapload of that sticky gooey stuff called oil. It would also free us more from wasting taxpayers money and manpower fighting in the mideast to "protect the interests of big oil.

How bout I refer to him as Barry Soetoro? instead of Barrack Hussein Obama,why does it bother everyone when I use his Muslim name? HE HAD IT CHANGED TO IT.

How is that hope and change workin for ya? "Like all before him, he may be, sadly, sucking up more to the powered campaign contribtors ( the wealthy and big business) ratherthan being a man and doing the right thing."

Oil bad,big business bad,man bad,wealhty bad,poor good,wind good,solar good. I see now. Where is the respect that you say you show to mankind? There are faces trying to make a living from the janitor to the CEO in these bad corporations. I work for the largest package company in the world,and love it.

I prefer rich over poor any day. Just because one may have money does not make them a snob anymore than being poor makes one humble and a great person.

Last but not least I don't want gov't mandating anything in my life,they can mandate yours but not mine. Just let gov't stay the hell out of my life as much as possible. If you want to live by more laws,go to Calif. which has bankrupted itself from the very thing that you want more mandates and ignorant enviro-mental laws.(not allowing farmers to water for the sake of one minnow,1,000's of people lost their jobs because of this one...stupid,just plain stupid)

My focus is on better energy solutions...not politics per se. having said that, oil is bad, big business is bad, and the elitists that control the vast majority of wealth in this country are not exactly angels either. I have nothing against wealth per se, but see all too often the way these folks live. "Exclusive" gated communities to hide in, wasteful 4000 square foot McMansions to live in, and each competing with the next to stroke their pathetic egos with that shiny new Beemer, Mercedes, or lexus while they brag about their golf scores. Boy, that's real depth of charachter!

Big business was supposed to be controlled when the governmnet enacted anti-trust laws. What ever happened to these anyway? Now we the taxpayer have to bail them out since they are "too big to fail"? Give me an effin break! Screw them and their $900,000 salaries and bonuses. They should be allowed to fail and live a simple life for a change. As to less government regulation, that's relative. I do not want the government to tell me what to do, but then again when has big business done anything to sacrafice their stock values and initiate changes for the betterment of society? Right now the oil, mining, and medical industries are all running more ads than ever advocating that we do nothing but accept the status quo. They are too driven by greed and those fat bonuses. Gotta keep the stock values going up...forever and ever! Screw them. It's time that we realize the frontier is gone out there, and with so many of us that we can now truly alter the planet, we need to rethink what actually creates quality of life. To me, with maybe another twenty five years before I croak, it is not having a 50 inch TV, a Rolex watch, a Versacci tie, or three infinitis in my driveway. It's looking from a mountain top and seeing thousands of acres of undeveloped land, It's encountering a bear, bobcat or coyote while walking down a wooded path, it's finding a swimming hole in the local creek that is still actually safe to swim in. These are attributes that have value!

Well said. I like all of those things that you mentioned, The cars,the money the big house,I don't golf but I love to fish. I love the wilderness. Just because one lives in the city doesn't mean that they can't enjoy the creation of this planet,and feel animosity and disdain for his fellow man because they choose a differnt lifestyle.

I agree we should have never bailed out anyone,I pulled my money from the market back in Sept 08 before the collapse,jumped back in in March when it was at it lowest. I disagreed with the cash for clunkers program,a lot of folks on this forum thought it was great. I didn't like subsidizing their car.

I know what quality of life is,others are still searching,some will find it and refuse it,others will cling to it,yet others will never give it one thought and make life a struggle. You have your solace in the creation of God. Others enjoy the hustle and bustle of the city. My thought is, neither is bad,to each his own. I don't condemn you for entering the sanctuary of wildlfe,even though the creatures would probably not want you there,it is their home before you arrived,nor should anyone condemn another for living his life in the city. Both can live in either place and be responsible.
Both have value,one is not greater than the other.